All of you government worshipers are going to love this one.

By Chelsea Schilling
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

The U.S. House of Representatives is scheduled to debate two bills that could give the federal government unprecedented control over the way parents raise their children – even providing funds for state workers to come into homes and screen babies for emotional and developmental problems.

The Pre-K Act (HR 3289) and the Education Begins at Home Act (HR 2343) are two bills geared toward military and families who fall below state poverty lines. The measures are said to be a way to prevent child abuse, close the achievement gap in education between poor and minority infants versus middle-class children and evaluate babies younger than 5 for medical conditions.

'Education Begins at Home Act' – HR 2343

HR 2343 is sponsored by Rep. Danny Davis, D-Ill., and cosponsored by 55 Democrats and 11 Republicans. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that implementing the Education Begins at Home Act would cost taxpayers $190 million for state home visiting plus "such sums as may be necessary" for in-hospital parent education.

While the bill may appear to be well-intentioned, Pediatrician Karen Effrem told WND government provisions in HR 2343 to evaluate children for developmental problems go too far.

"The federal definition of developmental screening for special education also includes what they call socioemotional screening, which is Mental health screening," Effrem said. "Mental health screening is very subjective no matter what age you do it. Obviously it is incredibly subjective when we are talking about very young children."

While the program may not be mandatory for low-income and military families, there is no wording in the Education Begins at Home Act requiring parental permission for treatment or ongoing care once the family is enrolled – a point that leads some to ask where parental rights end and the government takes over. Also, critics ask how agents of the government plan to acquire private medical and financial records to offer the home visiting program.

"There's no consent mentioned in the bill for any kind of screening – medical, health or developmental," Effrem said. "There are privacy concerns because when home visitors come into the home they assess everything about the family: Their financial situation, social situation, parenting practices, everything. All of that is put into a database."

Effrem said it does not specify whether parents are allowed to decline evaluations, drugs or treatment for their children once they are diagnosed with developmental or medical conditions.

"How free is someone who has been tagged as needing this program in the case of home visiting – like a military family or a poor family?" she asked. "How free are they to refuse? Even their refusal will be documented somewhere. There are plenty of instances where families have felt they can't refuse because they would lose benefits, be accused of not being good parents or potentially have their children taken away."

When WND asked Effrem how long state-diagnosed conditions would remain in a child's permanent medical history, she responded:

"Forever. As far as I know, there isn't any statute of limitations. The child's record follows them through school and potentially college, employment and military service."

Effrem said conflicts could also arise when parents do not agree with parenting standards of government home visitors.

"Who decides how cultural tolerance is going to be manifested?" she asked. "There's some blather in the language of the bill about having cultural awareness of the differences in parenting practices, but it seems like that never applies to Christian parents."

'Providing Resources Early for Kids'

The Pre-K Act, or HR 3289, is sponsored by Rep. Mazie Hirono, D-Hawaii, and cosponsored by 116 Democrats and Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla. Estimated to cost $500 million for each of fiscal years 2008 through 2013, the bill provides funds for state-approved education. Government workers would reach mothers and fathers in the hospital after a baby has been delivered to promote Pre-K programs.

"They give them information about Child Care Resource and Referral Network so they can get the child into a preschool or daycare that follows the state standards and get the mom working as quickly as possible," she said. "It's always that sort of thing: It's a list of resources, it's intruding on parental autonomy and authority and it's not necessarily accurate or welcome information."

While parents may choose to be involved in preschool programs, Effrem said the Pre-K Act poses similar concerns about government trumping parents' rights.

"Once they are involved, they don't have any say over curriculum," she said. "There's plenty of evidence of preschool curriculum that deals with issues that have nothing to do with a child's academic development – like gender, gender identity, careers, environmentalism, multiculturalism, feminism and all of that – things that don't amount to a hill of beans as far as a child learning how to read."

Effrem said the Pre-K Act extends a "really messed-up K-12 system" to include even younger, more vulnerable children.

"This is an expansion of the federal government into education when there really is no constitutional provision for it to do so."

Note: Concerned individuals may contact their representatives and senators.

If the government keeps coming up with crap like this and get it passed the people will get enough of the BS a lot sooner than I thought possible.

But it would be nice if you left off the government worshipper BS because very few people fit that category, it is just that the majority of people do not want to fight with the government.

Most people just want to be left alone as much as possible to live their lives and the government can do what it wants to as long as it doesn't affect them directly so much that it makes life unbearable. This does not make them government worshippers are bad people, it just means that they have enough to deal with without trying to go to battle with the government.

Look around you Magoo, a government worshipper would smile at the mention of the government, while the majority of people will just give a pained look and shake their heads when you mention the government.

If and when the government really goes too far, and makes life too difficult and interferes too much, then the people will make a stand and things will change really fast. If this bill gets passed that is a big step in going to far and interfering too much.

The accurate term for most of us would be a government tolerator, government worshipper is not only inaccurate it is disrepectful and leans toward being verbally abusive.

Barbara Jones:

If the government keeps coming up with crap like this and get it passed the people will get enough of the BS a lot sooner than I thought possible.   I doubt it.  I think people will continue to ignore it until it is too late, if it is not already.

But it would be nice if you left off the government worshipper BS because very few people fit that category, it is just that the majority of people do not want to fight with the government.   As long as people believe we need government in out lives to control us to some degree, they are government worshipers.  You are one of them, and I mean no offence Barbara.  I have a lot of respect for you, but not your ideas about government. 

Most people just want to be left alone as much as possible to live their lives and the government can do what it wants to as long as it doesn't affect them directly so much that it makes life unbearable. This does not make them government worshippers are bad people, it just means that they have enough to deal with without trying to go to battle with the government.  The only way to keep government in check is to get involved at every level of government and fight back.  Robert Higgs wrote an excellent book that everyone should read called “Crisis and Leviathan” which effectively demonstrates how government continues to eat away at our freedoms (which we never get back), and he used the phrase called the “wratchet effect.”  Every time the government takes something away, they “wratchet” up the control of you and me.  It never unwinds.

Look around you Magoo, a government worshipper would smile at the mention of the government, while the majority of people will just give a pained look and shake their heads when you mention the government.   I disagree.  You don’t have to love government to worship it.

If and when the government really goes too far, and makes life too difficult and interferes too much, then the people will make a stand and things will change really fast. If this bill gets passed that is a big step in going to far and interfering too much.  I doubt it. 

The accurate term for most of us would be a government tolerator, government worshipper is not only inaccurate it is disrepectful and leans toward being verbally abusive.  Again, it is not meant to be disrespectful, only to categorize where 99% of the US Citizens see the role, depending on a matter of degrees, of government.  The founding  fathers would be appauled at  how we have allowed government  to intrude into our lives  "as long as it doesn't affect them directly."  Shame on us!

 

 

 Thanks for the reply, but I do take offense as will most people at being called a government worshipper.  Anybody that has the tiniest modicum of common sense knows that there has to be laws and law regulators , aka government, otherwise there would be complete chaos. That does not mean that we worship the government it simply means that we accept that it is necessary to have laws and lawmakers.

I will say that we tolerate far too much and often inadvertantly support the government in overstepping the bounds into our private lives where government is not necessary and has no business being involved, which is where the label of government tolerator would be well deserved.

I disagree with some of your opinions as much as you disagree with mine, but I have deliberately out of respect for you and your right to your own opinions refrained from retaliating and labeling you as you are labeling me. Noone that knows as little about me as you do has enough knowledge to label me as anything.

My first assumptions of you by your postings is that you are a very rigid person , someone that is not willing to consider that any opinion other than your own has any value, I could easily invision you as a tyrant, demanding and unrelenting regardless of circumstances with eyes and ears totally closed to anything but your own wishes, a person filled with hate and anger in many ways.   However, I realize that to make such assumptions from the discussions here on the forums would not be completely unjustified and unwarranted. 

My impression of you also is that you have started out calling me and others government worshippers and to change that would make you feel as if you are backing down, instead of just offering respect in accomodating another person's feelings, so I will accept that in your mind at least you have no choice but to label people who disagree with you as government worshippers, so I will continue to tolerate the label without retaliation, so perhaps we can continue our discussions, because even though I disagree strongly on some issues, there are other issues we have discussed that your take on makes sense to me and I have revised my opinions accordingly.

Barbara i totally agree with your view we all have opinions and are entitled to them Mr magoo u also are entitled to your opinion and should just leave it at that no need to hang anything on anyone

The problem with Magoo is he chooses to embrace discredited opinions; mis contrued opinions found ont he conspiracy theory sites lol he likes to fill his life with some yearning that America is falling into communism because the guy is in a wheelchair and he has nothing to do with his time but he wouldn't be so if he didn't drink and drive. I mean the sooner you come to terms with it the sooner you will realize that the world goes on and America will change regardless of politician and it will most likely be for the better. Dummy.

Don't you get it ther eis no going back this is consumerism there is no going backwards this is our world and untill something comes along that makes this a boring planet with cultural drive to fill ourselves with stupid crap then its just going to be consumerism. It's a beautiful thing because the corporate body freed the world of communist potential and the only thing wrong with it is that they make so much money that the government bends to it's will. It's simple.

If you understand that the institution is based on the memory game and you can memorize text books you'll do fine in the tests in college get a 4 year degree and make a decent salary if you don't got it you work in a factory or some service job and if you want more something that gives you status na dmoney you become a full time student and become a doctor of law or medicine or some other crap.

I mean it's funny what do you got a 2 year associates degree in some bj program lol I mena get a job man move out of your parents basement you can still have a decent and normal life doesn't matter if you're handi capped. 

Barbara Jones:

 Thanks for the reply, but I do take offense as will most people at being called a government worshipper.  Anybody that has the tiniest modicum of common sense knows that there has to be laws and law regulators , aka government, otherwise there would be complete chaos.  There is no proof of this happening, in fact, the opposite is historically documented.  Chaos is usually the result of government interference and attempted total enslavement in the lives of people and then an uprising to overthrow the government. That does not mean that we worship the government it simply means that we accept that it is necessary to have laws and lawmakers.   A Government worship world is the only kind of world you have lived in and what the government run public school indoctrination centers have taught you and therefore I accept the fact that the concept of no government is incomprehensible to you.

I will say that we tolerate far too much and often inadvertantly support the government in overstepping the bounds into our private lives where government is not necessary and has no business being involved, which is where the label of government tolerator would be well deserved.   That is submission. 

I disagree with some of your opinions as much as you disagree with mine, but I have deliberately out of respect for you and your right to your own opinions refrained from retaliating and labeling you as you are labeling me. Noone that knows as little about me as you do has enough knowledge to label me as anything.  If the shoe fits …

My first assumptions of you by your postings is that you are a very rigid person , I deal in absolutes based on reason and logic, not touchy-feely opinions based on some Heracleasean Flux of what ever feels good at the moment. someone that is not willing to consider that any opinion other than your own has any value, I could easily invision you as a tyrant can’t be unless I supported government, demanding yes and unrelenting depends regardless of circumstances with eyes and ears totally closed to anything but your own wishes, a person filled with hate and anger in many ways.   I only hate government.  However, I realize that to make such assumptions from the discussions here on the forums would not be completely unjustified and unwarranted.  

My impression of you also is that you have started out calling me and others government worshippers and to change that would make you feel as if you are backing down, instead of just offering respect in accomodating another person's feelings, so I will accept that in your mind at least you have no choice but to label people who disagree with you as government worshippers, so I will continue to tolerate the label without retaliation, so perhaps we can continue our discussions, because even though I disagree strongly on some issues, there are other issues we have discussed that your take on makes sense to me and I have revised my opinions accordingly.

Interesting how you are offended by my using labels, but then you have no problem using your own against me.

Lets agree to disagree.

 

Mr. Magoo:

Barbara Jones:

 Thanks for the reply, but I do take offense as will most people at being called a government worshipper.  Anybody that has the tiniest modicum of common sense knows that there has to be laws and law regulators , aka government, otherwise there would be complete chaos.  There is no proof of this happening, in fact, the opposite is historically documented.  Chaos is usually the result of government interference and attempted total enslavement in the lives of people and then an uprising to overthrow the government. That does not mean that we worship the government it simply means that we accept that it is necessary to have laws and lawmakers.   A Government worship world is the only kind of world you have lived in and what the government run public school indoctrination centers have taught you and therefore I accept the fact that the concept of no government is incomprehensible to you.

I will say that we tolerate far too much and often inadvertantly support the government in overstepping the bounds into our private lives where government is not necessary and has no business being involved, which is where the label of government tolerator would be well deserved.   That is submission. 

I disagree with some of your opinions as much as you disagree with mine, but I have deliberately out of respect for you and your right to your own opinions refrained from retaliating and labeling you as you are labeling me. Noone that knows as little about me as you do has enough knowledge to label me as anything.  If the shoe fits …

My first assumptions of you by your postings is that you are a very rigid person , I deal in absolutes based on reason and logic, not touchy-feely opinions based on some Heracleasean Flux of what ever feels good at the moment. someone that is not willing to consider that any opinion other than your own has any value, I could easily invision you as a tyrant can’t be unless I supported government, demanding yes and unrelenting depends regardless of circumstances with eyes and ears totally closed to anything but your own wishes, a person filled with hate and anger in many ways.   I only hate government.  However, I realize that to make such assumptions from the discussions here on the forums would not be completely unjustified and unwarranted.  

My impression of you also is that you have started out calling me and others government worshippers and to change that would make you feel as if you are backing down, instead of just offering respect in accomodating another person's feelings, so I will accept that in your mind at least you have no choice but to label people who disagree with you as government worshippers, so I will continue to tolerate the label without retaliation, so perhaps we can continue our discussions, because even though I disagree strongly on some issues, there are other issues we have discussed that your take on makes sense to me and I have revised my opinions accordingly.

Interesting how you are offended by my using labels, but then you have no problem using your own against me.

Lets agree to disagree.

 

 

Realiteit Zuigt, maar u weet dat ik gelijk heb.  

I am disappointed this time with your reply, actually I did not label you as anything I merely said that is how you appeared to me, but that I could not label you according to my assumptions, because how you appear by the things you write here is not a good enough indicator of how you are as a whole to label you as anything.

Historically there has always been either a dictatorship of one leader or a form of government by a group of leaders for every clan, tribe, or group of people in all parts of the world.  So how could you possibly claim that history shows that having no government could work. 

 It wouln't work. It's funny Magoos nihilism because hes very typical. This is the type of guy who isn't really motivated to do anything with his life for some reason or another he doesn't know and I don't care to get into what they may be. So he feels out of place because he does have an internet account and he's been hit with an abundance of choice; however he chooses to focus on the most ridiculous and unrealistic things because there isn't anything for him to feel special about. If our dystopia was to the level he wants to believe then he would feel empowered like the time is coming and people will fight and he will be a hero in that fight. He is yearning for this but the guy doesn't know that people this vocal in the world he wants to exist in would have disappeared ages ago. 

It's rather tragic because he at the end of the day is just the other spectrum of that greek guy, wothless agendas with no ability to comprehend the basic functions of the world outside of their tiny little sub-culture. Meanwhile people more in tune with what the world is really like are motivated to contribute something whether it is taking a social position or becoming a doctor, lawyer,  father, mother, celebrity. But unlike all these people these guys harbor an inner resentment because they realized they may never be these people they may never achieve a significant status to make an impact on this world and so they continue choosing to only accept these very complicated fairy tales when the fact of the matter is you can count on one constant and that is that things are going to change and if you don't change with the world you get left in the dust.

People don't need to be that bright but those like magoo and thegreek loser are wasted potential and its expressed in very similar ways through their desire for what is inherently destruction of a world that is indifferent to them. They will remain satisfied with the internet connection their chubby girl friends and highschool friends and that is a tragedy when these people hide behind the excuse that the world is cruel and they are limited because the Government weilds so much power.

Anyone is capable of anything but its those who are incapable of seeing there are better things beyond the prideful indoctrination of elementary school...

Kids who grow up this way are actually really interesting because kids essentially choose to be in certain gangs (cliques) so figures of authority  are only their to make sure the kids are joining the right gangs; however the level of indiference produces these types and the indiference will be forever reproduced in their non threatening and small lives. 

Barbara Jones:

I am disappointed this time with your reply, actually I did not label you as anything I merely said that is how you appeared to me, but that I could not label you according to my assumptions, because how you appear by the things you write here is not a good enough indicator of how you are as a whole to label you as anything.

Historically there has always been either a dictatorship of one leader or a form of government by a group of leaders for every clan, tribe, or group of people in all parts of the world.  So how could you possibly claim that history shows that having no government could work. 

Your hisory is based on that provided by our government run public school indoctrination centers, and not reality.  I've suggested you read one book earlier.  This book is not based on the history provided by our government run public school indoctrination centers, but on actual history.   It is amazing what you will learn by going outside of normal channels. 

 Actually you are part of that indoctrination and a perfect product of it Magoo. It's laughable that you think that you can project superiority when it's likely Barbaras contribution to human civilization is far more significant to anything you have done in what probably is your early to mid twenties  life.

If anything Bjones has over stepped what ever limitations the insitutions have toward a better ideal because she is actually capable of functioning in the world. I mean come on you go on here and post some things right off an anti-semitic website full of things by people like Alex Jones, people who for a living sell you conspiracy theories. They have an audience and they know it because it is the institution that created you. 

I mean it's hillarious because its all drawn from a desire to be this really smart person but you're not smart enough to function within the game you have to be stupid enough to blab about it. Like I said if you were from chile you would have dissappeared and nobody would have to deal with things that are utterly baseless.

Do you really want to go on fullfilling the role of the institution you being so smart and superior so well informed that the impact you want to make is one where you don't finish that college diploma you dont get a job.

Life is very simple even if you're rich; God the richest people I know are so simple in what they spend that it only proves that you want it to and you don't know how to have it. You didn't have to be part of the institution to realize that everything is based on your ability to memorize and take a test and if you can do that you can get the piece of paper and pursue something people admire. Because I'm telling you by the time you hit 30 whatever vocabulary yoy have that can impress twenty something girls who for the first time live on their own wont be impressed; they will look at you and wonder why is this creepy old guy talking to about the New World Order.

Life is easy to live  you just have to enjoy it and explore it because everybody knows that the most important thing you can do with your life is enjoy it.

Soju:

 Actually you are part of that indoctrination and a perfect product of it Magoo. It's laughable that you think that you can project superiority when it's likely Barbaras contribution to human civilization is far more significant to anything you have done in what probably is your early to mid twenties  life.

If anything Bjones has over stepped what ever limitations the insitutions have toward a better ideal because she is actually capable of functioning in the world. I mean come on you go on here and post some things right off an anti-semitic website full of things by people like Alex Jones, people who for a living sell you conspiracy theories. They have an audience and they know it because it is the institution that created you. 

I mean it's hillarious because its all drawn from a desire to be this really smart person but you're not smart enough to function within the game you have to be stupid enough to blab about it. Like I said if you were from chile you would have dissappeared and nobody would have to deal with things that are utterly baseless.

Do you really want to go on fullfilling the role of the institution you being so smart and superior so well informed that the impact you want to make is one where you don't finish that college diploma you dont get a job.

Life is very simple even if you're rich; God the richest people I know are so simple in what they spend that it only proves that you want it to and you don't know how to have it. You didn't have to be part of the institution to realize that everything is based on your ability to memorize and take a test and if you can do that you can get the piece of paper and pursue something people admire. Because I'm telling you by the time you hit 30 whatever vocabulary yoy have that can impress twenty something girls who for the first time live on their own wont be impressed; they will look at you and wonder why is this creepy old guy talking to about the New World Order.

Life is easy to live  you just have to enjoy it and explore it because everybody knows that the most important thing you can do with your life is enjoy it.

Bah

http://bah.nudnik.ru/ 

Soju says ..... "Actually you are part of that indoctrination and a perfect product of it Magoo. It's laughable that you think that you can project superiority when it's likely Barbaras contribution to human civilization is far more significant to anything you have done in what probably is your early to mid twenties  life."

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I think we shoud add a Philosphy "subject" to our threads. Or maybe a speculation "subject" for some fun. I have a lot proficies (sp?) that I could share!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Bob,

We could, but I see no reason.  Politics is only a branch of Philosophy.